Intervista con Giovanni di Lorenzo, direttore Die Zeit

Le critiche alla Cancelliera, “immeritate”. La stima per Monti e Draghi. L’“inverosimile” vittoria di Berlusconi. E ancora l’austerity, la Grosse koalition, il giornalismo in crisi. Giovanni di Lorenzo, nato in Italia, è il direttore del più importante settimanale tedesco, Die Zeit. Ecco come legge le elezioni di Roma e Berlino. Con una sola certezza: la Cdu rivincerà.

Le critiche alla Cancelliera, “immeritate”. La stima per Monti e Draghi. L’“inverosimile” vittoria di Berlusconi. E ancora l’austerity, la Grosse koalition, il giornalismo in crisi. Giovanni di Lorenzo, nato in Italia, è il direttore del più importante settimanale tedesco, Die Zeit. Ecco come legge le elezioni di Roma e Berlino. Con una sola certezza: la Cdu rivincerà.

Anni 70, Hannover, Repubblica federale tedesca, una scuola superiore qualsiasi. «L’Italiano di Lorenzo bisognerebbe impiccarlo », urla un professore di fronte alla classe. Giovanni si fa piccolo piccolo, in un angolo della classe. Nessuno compagno alza un dito. È un ragazzino emigrato dal Belpaese, arrivato in Germania con la madre e il fratello. Un tirocinio dopo la scuola lancia il giovane italiano nella carta stampata. Un primo articolo su Angelo Branduardi e poi, di redazione in redazione, una carriera che si snoda tra quotidiani e settimanali nazionali. Oggi, a 53 anni, Giovanni di Lorenzo è il direttore di Die Zeit: il più importante settimanale tedesco, uno dei più noti d’Europa. Mai una parola di troppo, eppure sempre incisivo; moderato, ma non conservatore; liberale e progressista allo stesso tempo: è lo stile che di Lorenzo ha impresso al suo giornale. Quando ci racconta al telefono l’episodio in cui il professore, più di trent’anni fa, lo insultò davanti ai suoi compagni di scuola, lo fa senza rancore. La Germania da allora è cambiata molto e in meglio. Oggi però è anche il Paese che guida l’Europa e, forse proprio per questo, si ritrova al centro delle critiche di parte della classe politica italiana.

Direttore, cosa sta succedendo tra Italia e Germania? Nel nostro Paese per alcuni la Merkel è l’austerity fatta persona e l’avversario da combattere.

Innanzitutto è bene dire che nessun cittadino tedesco vuole agire per colpire appositamente l’Italia, tanto meno la Merkel. E non c’è nessuna ostilità verso il popolo italiano da parte di quello tedesco. È un’ipotesi che non sta né in cielo né in terra. Altrettanto l’equiparazione tra austerity, Germania e Merkel. Questa situazione di contrasto che si è creata rappresenta un disastro nella storia dei rapporti tra Italia e Germania dal dopoguerra a oggi.

Quindi la Germania non ha colpe per la situazione italiana?

Certo che no. Sebbene ci sia una certa visione politica in Italia che tenti di individuare nella Germania il motivo di tutti i disagi del Paese, questi in realtà sono dovuti al malgoverno degli ultimi decenni. Quella che si sta attuando in Italia è la classica logica del capro espiatorio.

E Berlino non ha preferenze per qualche candidato italiano?

Diciamo che c’è un certo credito morale e politico nei confronti del governo Monti, ma la domanda che viene rivolta a me, e a chiunque porti un cognome italiano, in tutti gli ambienti politici, è sempre la stessa: «Può davvero Berlusconi tornare al governo?».

Perché?

È un’eventualità che per la mentalità tedesca, a prescindere da destra e sinistra, ha semplicemente dell’inverosimile. Da rimanere esterrefatti.

Però i giornali tedeschi danno molto spazio al confronto tra Monti e Berlusconi mentre il centrosinistra rimane in ombra…

È colpa del fatto che c’è poca chiarezza sugli assetti politici e le alleanze. I programmi diventano difficilmente spiegabili persino agli italiani, si figuri ai tedeschi. 4

E di chi è la colpa?

Non vorrei fare battute, ma dipende anche molto dal lavoro dei media. Io sono un membro della carta stampata e le dico sinceramente che vedo con preoccupazione il modo in cui i quotidiani italiani trattano la politica. Del resto basta guardare il calo delle vendite. Se una qualsiasi persona si perde un solo numero di un quotidiano italiano, dal giorno dopo non riesce più a capire in che direzione stia andando il dibattito politico. Se io stesso non riesco a capire di che cosa parlino i giornali italiani, mi chiedo come dovrebbe fare il lettore medio.

Troppi slogan?

Un racconto a puntate senza una visione d’insieme. Mi duole dirlo, ma leggere dall’estero la politica italiana sui giornali italiani è impossibile.

In Germania invece?

Si cercano di spiegare i fatti, gli avvenimenti e le personalità. Proviamo a spiegare cosa c’è dietro alle parole, per svelare i significati della politica al lettore.

Quindi i giornali italiani sono da buttare?

No, assolutamente. Devo riconoscere che in Italia emerge più nettamente il contraddittorio tra le varie testate: questo è un aspetto positivo. I giornali tedeschi tendono a un conformismo sconcertante. Scrivono tutti le stesse cose nello stesso momento: che si tratti di elogi o di condanne, vanno sempre in coro.

L’economia ha colonizzato il linguaggio politico in Italia. Per intenderci, quanto si parla dello spread in Germania?

Pochissimo. Anzi, in Germania non se ne parla proprio, anche perché al momento non rappresenta un costo per l’economia.

E della disoccupazione?

Vede, la Germania è un Paese fortunato in questo momento. La disoccupazione giovanile in alcuni Länder è inesistente. In Italia, al contrario si attesta intorno al 36 per cento, un dato sconcertante.

A settembre si vota anche in Germania. Chi vincerà le elezioni?

La Cdu perde terreno nei Länder, ma rimane stabile a livello nazionale. Il punto è che in questo momento non c’è nessuna volontà di cambiare il Cancelliere. Se è vero che i tedeschi non sono soddisfatti della squadra di governo nel suo complesso, la Merkel gode comunque di un grande consenso.

Come mai?

Angela Merkel ha uno stile poco vanitoso, dà importanza ai fatti e mira a trovare le soluzioni ai problemi. Qualità che sono apprezzate al di là degli schieramenti politici, anche da chi non vota democristiano. È una persona sobria e schiva che, tanto per fare un esempio, la sera va al supermercato a fare la spesa. Ai tedeschi piace. Non è un caso che nonostante la frammentazione partitica la Cdu sia rimasta stabile al 40 per cento. Numeri che devono essere considerati un grande successo politico.

Quindi vincerà la Merkel?

Se la Merkel dovesse avere un tracollo si potrebbe trovare all’opposizione con il 40 per cento e la Spd al governo insieme ai Verdi e ai Liberali.

Addirittura?

Sì, ma una mossa politica del genere costituirebbe un tradimento politico da parte del Partito liberale nei confronti della Cdu. E comunque ripeto: la Merkel è stabile. Più verosimilmente, in caso la Cdu non dovesse raggiungere la maggioranza dei seggi con i liberali, si potrebbe profilare un’alleanza con i socialdemocratici.

Un governo di larghe intese: lo scenario che Joschka Fischer invocava per un’Europa più equilibrata tra crescita e rigore…

Quella della Grosse koalition è una situazione che la Germania ha già vissuto otto anni fa. Non so cosa comporterebbe a livello europeo, ma, a mio parere, quello di larghe intese del 2005 fu un governo migliore di quello di oggi. Per la Germania rappresenterebbe sicuramente un vantaggio.

E per chi no?

Per noi giornalisti, sarebbe una noia mortale.

E se invece vincesse il socialdemocratico Steinbrück, la Germania cambierebbe la sua politica verso l’Europa?

No. E questo è il vero grande problema per i socialdemocratici: come si può pensare di combattere la Merkel se in fondo la propria politica europea non è diversa da quella dei democristiani?

Ma è difficile da immaginare. Steinbrück come Cancelliere è un candidato debole. Ancora un po’ frastornato dalle gaffe che ha fatto nei mesi passati, quando minacciò di invadere la Svizzera con la cavalleria, dopo che la Spd lo aveva scelto come candidato per le Politiche del 2013.

Quindi niente eurobond? In Italia sono considerati come la via d’uscita dalla crisi, servirebbe un consenso ampio però…

È un consenso che in Germania non c’è. Però, a mio avviso, bisogna riconoscere che la Merkel ha già condiviso le misure adottate dalla Bce di Mario Draghi, che nella prassi sono molto vicine alla logica degli eurobond. Vanno verso una responsabilizzazione collettiva dell’economia europea.

Una Germania in linea con Draghi quindi?

Sì, anche se rimane un certo contrasto con la Bundesbank. La stabilità dei prezzi rimane la priorità per i tedeschi. La gente comune ha paura di dover un giorno pagare per le fideiussioni date. Il che vorrebbe dire colpire la gente con gli introiti più bassi: una prospettiva che spaventa.

Lei, Draghi, Monti. C’è una certa Italia che ha successo in Germania… che Paese trovò quando si trasferì, trent’anni fa?

Era una realtà che non aveva nulla a che fare con quella odierna. Oggi la Germania è un Paese multietnico. Al tempo invece c’era un certo senso dichiusura: io e mio fratello eravamo addirittura gli unici stranieri a scuola. Quando fui eletto portavoce degli studenti, un professore davanti alla classe disse: «L’italiano di Lorenzo bisogna impiccarlo». Devo dire che nessuno quella volta si scandalizzò. Era la Germania degli anni 70.

Le difficoltà di tanti degli emigrati italiani di allora…

Le difficoltà che incontrai io furono minori rispetto a quelle di molti altri italiani emigrati che non poterono frequentare la scuola superiore e non avevano una madre tedesca.

Quanto è ancora legato all’Italia?

Ho fatto le elementari in Italia, mio padre vive a Roma, ho una piccola casa al mare in Toscana e, alla mia tenera età, ho ancora una nonna che vive a Rimini. Sono legami inscindibili.

Un ricordo dell’infanzia passata in Italia?

Mi viene in mente che per la gente eravamo i “tedeschini”, ma era veramente un modo affettuoso di riferirsi a me e mio fratello.

Die Zeit, letteralmente “Il Tempo”, ma voi non ne risentite…

Quello del nostro giornale è un miracolo che stiamo vivendo con umiltà. In questo panorama di crisi mondiale per il cartaceo, Die Zeit è riuscito ad aumentare sia gli incassi che la tiratura. Nell’ultimo trimestre i dati dicono che abbiamo venduto 514mila copie in media. Dopo il giornale scandalistico Bild siamo la rivista più venduta in Germania.

Quando torna in Italia?

Non torno. Anzi, solo in vacanza, da buon tedesco. Scherzi a parte, a maggio sarò a Rimini a trovare i parenti.

Grazie direttore.

Grazie a voi, a presto.

(Left, 16.02.2013)

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